Henry Lamb – The World’s Foremost Expert on Biodiversity and its Effect on American Citizens

Originally interviewed in 2005 at the offices of his Environmental Conservation Organization in Hollow Rock, Tennessee, Henry Lamb’s words are as pertinent today as they were 13 years ago. Scholars of environmental conservation as it relates to individual property rights and freedoms granted by the Constitution may find his knowledge of interest.

Listen to the audio on the Sustaining American YouTube channel by clicking here:

The full interview transcript follows:

(My name is Henry Lamb. We are in Hollow Rock, Tennessee on the 20th of March, 2005.)

HENRY LAMB – Regarding the shift in this country in the understanding of land use, land use regulations, and land use policy; I am suggesting that the shift began as two fundamental points of view about the value of life collided. The traditional, American point of view has always held the Judeo-Christian view that human life is the ultimate in this universe, known as the anthropocentric view. Then arises the Biocentric view; which says essentially that human life has no value greater than any other life form; which is the view held by the conservationists and biologists. It is the point of view held by modern environmentalism, that the life of a rattle snake is just as valuable as the life of a human because of the delicate web of interconnectivity that every life is valuable and the same.

HENRY LAMB – Which I think is a crock. Nevertheless, that the international level primarily is a result of conferences through the IUCN (International Union for the Conservation of Nature). This philosophy began to emerge in land use policies. The IUCN is particularly concerned about conservation measures.

HENRY LAMB – Prior to the late 60’s even the IUCN recognized resource use as legitimate human activity. From the 60’s -70’s, particularly the late 70’s & early 80’s that view shifted primarily as a result of exploding populations. The idea came about that humans were destroying the resources which would ultimately end in destroying the earth. (I’m sure you remember the Paul Ehrlich Population Bomb that said people would be starving in New York City by the mid 80’s.) Nevertheless, out of that belief that humans were degrading natural resources came the notion that we must preserve and protect these resources and the only way to do that effectively is through government power.

HENRY LAMB – Then perhaps one of the first (not the first by any means) treaties in the modern era is the CITES (Convention on International Trade of Endangered Species) that came about in the early 70’s, in fact a couple of months before the enactment of our endangered species act in this country in 1973. This one of the early examples of how an international treaty influences the development of domestic law. In fact, in the treaty itself it says one of the purposes of this act is to conform/comply with the requirements of six specific treaties, one of which is the CITES treaty and other international regulations. This begins the series that has multiplied in the last 20-30 years where international law precedes the development of domestic policy.

CIRINA CATANIA – What does international law have to do with what we are doing down the street?

HENRY LAMB – I don’t how much detail you want to get into at this point, it probably isn’t necessary. I’m trying to show you that many of the problems people are facing today, like Ann Roach, are facing these problems as a of laws and regulations that have come into existence as a result of this international origin that filters down through our public policy. Currently, in the U.S., our environmental policy, land use policy, natural use policy is based on a biocentric point of view as opposed to an anthropocentric point of view. In fact, in that book,

HENRY LAMB – in the 1993/1994 in Al Gore’s reinvention of government, in the implementation of the ecosystem management policy which was shaped in preparation for implementing the Biodiversity Treaty. It says specifically that ecosystems will be regarded at the same priority level as human life. It says, in another document, that humans will be considered as a biological resource. The specific language inserted into public policy in the 1990’s, under Al Gore’s leadership, transformed our historic view of resource use to one of resource protection, resource value equal to human life. That’s when it occurred in this country. The policy has followed that philosophy ever since.

HENRY LAMB – You will discover that as this philosophy unfolded at the international level, then comes the emergence of UNESCO’s Man in the Biosphere Program and the World Heritage Treaty. The Man in the Biosphere Program is not a result of a treaty, it the result of memorandum of agreement between the state department and UNESCO. Its goal is to transform land use around the globe, setting aside vast tracks of land as wilderness to be preserved in its pristine condition beyond the boundaries and use of human activity, to be used for nothing more than research or walking through for recreational purposes at the discretion of government. There are now more than 400 biosphere reserves around the world, 47 of which are in this country. Not one of these 47 have ever been debated or considered by any legislative body (at state, local, or federal level) designated administratively state department and department of interior are among the federal agencies that are members of the IUCN. The IUCN developed the program.

HENRY LAMB – The Wildlands Project is a project of non-government organizations designed to implement the goals & objectives of this Man in the Biosphere Program.

HENRY LAMB – The Sierra Club published in 1994 a map showing 21 bioregions for North America that transform traditional political jurisdictions. The ultimate concept is to transform management of land use and people, not according to political jurisdiction (state and county lines), but according to watersheds, ecosystems, and bioregions. The system of governance has nothing to do with representative government where you elect your representatives. It has to do with watershed counsels, bioregional counsels, up to a national counsel that represent the people before the General Assembly. This is a whole different form of government that is proposed in the implementation of this land use strategy. We are in the midst of implementing it.

HENRY LAMB – The Wildlands Project was conceived by Dave Foreman and Dr. Reed Noss among others. It was first published in 1992 in a special publication called “Wild Earth” published by the Cenozoic Society, headed by Dave Foreman. The Wildlands says explicitly that at least ½ of the land area in North American must be preserved as wilderness provided that most of the balance ½ is managed for conservation objectives by the government. People find this really hard to believe, that this is published information. This is not theory, this is published. I have a copy of that 1992 document. Since 1992, the Federal government has been working to achieve those very objectives.

HENRY LAMB – The Wildlands Project envisions core wilderness areas, which ironically, correspond to the core wilderness areas in the Man in the Biosphere Program in the 47 existing biosphere reserves. These wildland preserves are to be interconnected with corridors of wilderness for wildlife migration. Then these wilderness cores and corridors are to be surrounded by buffer zones that will have limited human activity, managed for conservation objectives. And that These buffer zones are to be surrounded by zones of cooperation where the purpose is to restore and rehabilitate fragmented forested areas. This means moving people off of land to continually expand outward the wilderness areas and buffer zones.

HENRY LAMB – An example is the Southern Appalachian Biosphere Reserve was designated first in the late 70’s as 517,000 acres of the Smokey Mountain National Park. That biosphere today is 53 million acres, reaching from Birmingham to Roanoke.

HENRY LAMB – The forest service has had in place for a number of years programs to identify connecting corridors and to take measures to implement those connecting corridors. The Forest Service is in the process of establishing and expanding core areas through implementation of the endangered species act, the wetland policy, the heritage corridors, areas, and a variety of other regulations. If you talk to any of these agencies, they will deny any relationship at all to the Wildlands Project. But it really doesn’t matter because the end result of what they are doing is creating the picture that was designed and described in the Wildlands Project. So, we are getting there and this of course is being advanced by a variety of environmental organizations, particularly the Sierra Club Nature Conservancy, National Wildlife Association and many others.

CIRINA CATANIA – What was their reported goal of all this? Where are the people supposed to go?

HENRY LAMB – Into sustainable communities. That’s Agenda 21. You move the people off the rural countryside and put them in sustainable communities. That is another whole program; it is the opposite side of the Wildlands Project.

HENRY LAMB – The 2 sides of sustainable development, sustainability Agenda 21 is to get people off the land and into urban areas and preserve the countryside/wildlife and use as buffer zone, the areas around the urban areas to develop what was needed to sustain the sustainable communities. But you have to understand, that what has been deemed sustainable is vastly different from the standard of living that we in America have come to expect.

HENRY LAMB – Maurice Strong who headed the 1992 Earth Summit, said at that Summit, that certain lifestyle patterns are not sustainable. Among which are single family housing, air conditioning, fast foods, and a variety of other things that we take for granted in this country. I’m not kidding you. This is information that Joe Six Pack never heard of and wouldn’t believe if you told him.

HENRY LAMB – This is obviously not a transformation that is going to take place in a hurry, and the people who are promoting this agenda understand that. They have no timetable, it is not a matter of speed; it is a matter of thoroughness. What difference does it make if it takes 100 years, ultimately that’s where they expect to get.

CIRINA CATANIA – Ann Roach told us a story of Charlie, can’t remember his last name. He told one of the park service guys ‘I told you you could have 10 feet. Why are you taking everything?’ The guy says, ‘Because we can Charlie’. Charlie says ‘Over my dead body.’ The guys says ‘We’ll wait.’

HENRY LAMB – And they will. They will. But, you know, in Ann’s case up there, their goal is to get those people out of there, It is not just to build a road, it’s to get those people out of there. That’s the whole idea all the way across the country. It’s happening in the west w/ the cattle people, the ranchers, it is happening with the logger, it is happening with the farmers. They are succeeding and the reason they are succeeding is the people it’s happening to think it’s just happening to “me,” or it is just happening to “us.” Just recently they have begun to realize that it’s happening everywhere to everybody all at the same time and there are 10,000 programs out there and twice that many NGO’s at the local level promoting it. This NGO promotion is pretty well coordinated. For years it was coordinated through the National Research Institute, space outfit in DC, who is one of the two IUCN primary promoters.

HENRY LAMB – This IUCN, I can’t tell you how important it is. That outfit was organized in 1948 by Julian Huxley, the same guy who founded UNESCO, really organized it and put it to work as an adjunct to UNESCO as a non-government promoter of UNESCO’s operations.

HENRY LAMB – They did really well until 1961 when they decided they needed more money, so they created the World Wildlife Fund. IUCN created the World Wildlife Fund expressly for the purpose of putting the public faith/public outreach on their so-called scientific activity.

HENRY LAMB – And they set out to save the panda, at first they set out to save some baby seal or something, and then they found out that the panda was a more productive fund raising tool.

HENRY LAMB – Then in 1972, they decided they needed more scientific information to support their policies and proposals, so they created the National Research Institute, Gus Speth’s outfit. ‘National’ doesn’t sound right, I’ll look it up. (Note: it is the World Resources Institute and Natural Resources Defense Council)

HENRY LAMB – These three organizations (IUCN, World Wildlife Fund, and National Research Institute) together published a series of massive documents with the United Nations education program, with the U.N., that laid the foundation for all of these treaties and for this transformation from anthropocentrism to biocentrism in land management philosophy and policy. They are the ones that are responsible for it.

HENRY LAMB – These non-government organizations serve as umbrellas for myriad (little organizations working at every level), they are responsible for this transformation that has come about. I’ve talked enough now.

HENRY LAMB – Our basic organization is the Environmental Conservation Organization. I told you, we created that in 1988, primarily to try to change the Wetlands policy at that time. Now, we have found it is not just Wetlands, it is a much bigger agenda.

HENRY LAMB – In 1996 we created Sovereignty International to work at the international level.

HENRY LAMB – In 1999 we decided that most of our efforts to that point had been opposing what somebody else was initiating. We realized you never win by being against. At this meeting, I mentioned last night in DC, with those 8 co-sponsors of the Freedom 21 campaign, we decided to adopt a positive strategy of advancing the principles of freedom in public policy in the 21st century. We call that the Campaign Freedom 21 campaign. What we try to do is inspire, inform, and activate local organizations to advance freedom policies at the local, state, and support national initiatives.

HENRY LAMB – We work, I work primarily at the national and international levels and support those people who are working at the local and state levels by providing information and contacts. We are currently working with the House Resources Committee on a strategy to de-list biosphere reserves in this country. We are working with a number of other groups to modify rather seriously the endangered species act. There are a number of other issues we are involved with as well, but these are two priority issues for us this year.

CIRINA CATANIA – Who in the current administration is helping you?

HENRY LAMB – No one is opposing us openly, everybody is helping us openly. The reality is in the administration we have one good friend that is close to the white house, we have a couple of good friends that are in the Department of the Interior, Council of Environmental Quality Chief of Staff is a close friend that we worked with on climate change issues several years ago.

CIRINA CATANIA: Is that someone we could talk to?

HENRY LAMB: No, he won’t talk to you. For political reasons, he can’t talk to you about it.

CIRINA CATANIA – How does Bush feel about it?

HENRY LAMB – He doesn’t know much about it at all. He is supportive of steps to achieve our objectives with great sensitivity of the political consequences. That’s probably the best way to put it. He has advanced Healthy Forest initiative, which is a tiny step in the direction it needs to go. It is getting enormous flack from the environmental organizations. He has advanced a Clean Air imitative that the Senate just rejected.

HENRY LAMB – Our Congress is willfully ignorant on most of these issues. In the House, we have 50-maybe 60 Congressmen who are reasonably well up to speed, most are not. In the Senate there is not a dozen who are up to speed. But they have been very effective when we needed them to be. Like when we needed to block the Biodiversity Treaty, Bob Dole was very helpful in that. Inhoff Has been very helpful in blocking the law of the Sea Treaty. We have a some well-placed, potent friends. We have no organized lobbying, we’ve spent no pennies on lobbying, we just don’t have it and the other side does of course.

CIRINA CATANIA – How do you feel about the way children are being educated on these issues?

HENRY LAMB – They are not being educated on these issues. They are being sold an idea that trees cry when somebody cuts a limb, that its murder to cut down a tree. They are not being educated, they are being brainwashed. They are being sold. In fact, most of the education program is designed especially to instill a new set of values, a new set of attitudes, not to educate.

CIRINA CATANIA – What’s at the crux of that? Is that the NEA that is misguided or what do you think?

HENRY LAMB – It certainly is the NEA, they have been leaders in transforming curriculum for years. In fact, the little book she just put out, the Bob Hillman book, will be an eye opener in the role of the NEA and the international community and the interplay, UNESCO is the source of this, UNESCO working with the NEA. As you will see, historically, their goal has been to get the education of children out of the hands of parents and into the hands of government. That’s a stated absolute objective. Since 1949, their goal has been to educate children toward One Worldness – to eliminate the concept of national sovereignty. That has been a stated goal. If you would like to look at one of those early UNESCO documents, you will find it on our website. This has been long-going.

CIRINA CATANIA – What do you think the educators need or children need to be taught? Would you put some categories together of ideas of you’d like to see, what would that be?

HENRY LAMB – I think one of the greatest weaknesses in our education system is the failure to educate the value of our core principles. Individual freedom, individual responsibility, private property rights as a foundation of capitalism, what it is, why it is better than socialism or other forms, even as bad as it is, it is better than anything that has been discovered. We don’t teach any of that.

HENRY LAMB – Even when I was in school, we learned the structure of government, but we didn’t really learn the why of that structure. How this structure developed, it was the result of the failure of other systems that creative people came together and created a better way to achieve a better outcome. It is that better outcome that we have lost sight of.

HENRY LAMB – People are far, far too willing to let government take care of us, to let government set the standards. We are far to willing to be limited in our exploration of what is possible. If government says, “no you can’t have a permit to do that,” we go and do something else. “Why can’t I have a permit?” “Why can’t I to do what I want to?” There’s where I think we need to reenergize that quest for excellence which we’ve lost.

CIRINA CATANIA – Talk to us for a minute about the Constitution.

HENRY LAMB – OK, aside from it being only a tad left from the Ten Commandments. It is, I think, a profound plateau in human achievement. It is as close to a perfect way for human beings to govern themselves as humanity has ever been able to devise. Aside from that, what can I tell you, there’s not much left to be said. It’s just a shame that we don’t let it guide us, but it’s there.

HENRY LAMB – I think the greatest genius of the Constitution, aside from representative government, is the balance of power. And, thanks to Madison, the interplay in Congress for ideas to collide and be honed through that debate and ultimately refined and decided by the majority, I think is the genius of our system.

HENRY LAMB – And sadly, that is just he opposite from the decision-making procedure prescribed by the UN Agenda 21policy. The decision-making procedure prescribed through the Agenda 21 and the U.N. global government philosophy is consensus building. You don’t let conflicting ideas collide; you eliminate conflicting ideas and build consensus. Which is nothing short of tyranny and that is what the consensus process is all about, to eliminate conflicting ideas.

HENRY LAMB – There is a difference between Agenda 21 and treaties. Agenda 21 is not a treaty, it is what is called a soft-law policy document, a set of recommendations for subscribing nations to strive to achieve. Agenda 21 was signed by 179 nations in Rio, but it is not legally binding.

HENRY LAMB – Treaties however are legally binding. The policy document is first, then come the treaties that co-define some segment of that policy document into binding law. Such as the Framework Convention on Climate Change which in itself was voluntary but the Kyoto protocol is legally binding.

HENRY LAMB – Then comes the Convention on Biological Diversity which is legally binding but not ratified by the United States.

HENRY LAMB – The power of a treaty is not standard. A treaty can be either self-executing or non-self executing then Congress must pass a law to implement those provisions.

HENRY LAMB – A treaty that is self executing, is, according to the Constitution, becomes a part of the law of the land. A non-self executing treaty, however, does not become a part of the law of the land until it is made executable by statute, by Congressional action.

HENRY LAMB – They do find more than what Congress approves. Congress enacts a law and most of the agencies feel compelled to use that law to the maximum extent to expand their power base and they do that through promulgations of rules. While Congress has oversight, they have historically been exceedingly lenient in letting organizations/agencies go and go and go.

HENRY LAMB – I’ll give you a classic example of how what you are talking about happens through our Wetlands Policy: 1972 Clean Water Act set forth the provisions to limit the responsibilities of the federal government as it relates to the navigable waters of the United States.

HENRY LAMB – No problem, until there is a recognition that the Ramsar Treaty on Wetlands signed in 1971 could be used to interpret the Clean Water Act.

HENRY LAMB – So, the National Wildlife Federation files suit against the Fish & Wildlife Service claiming it has a responsibility under Ramsar to protect Wetlands of the United States.

HENRY LAMB – There is a lawsuit going on. The parties to the suit get together and say, the National Wildlife Federation says, if you will rewrite your definition of the waters of the United States then we’ll drop our lawsuit.

HENRY LAMB – The Fish & Wildlife Services, having attended the same IUCN meeting that the National Wildlife Federation attended where they discussed all this, the Fish & Wildlife Service says that sounds like a good deal to me. Let’s go to the court and get a consent decree, which is what they did.

HENRY LAMB – So the National Wildlife Federation rewrites the definition of a Wetlands to include any mud puddle that is moist 12” below the surface of the ground for 7 consecutive days during the growing season, any intermittent stream, any meadow.

HENRY LAMB – This definition, which was adopted by the Fish & Wildlife Service and approved by the court.

HENRY LAMB – So, suddenly the Clean Water Act of 1972, which does not use the term “wetland” in it, is the legal basis for the Fish & Wildlife Service to go down here to Gordon Ellis’s farm and stop my construction crew from digging a ditch on his own damn farm. Can you believe that?

CIRINA CATANIA – What can he do about it?

HENRY LAMB – He can do like OC Mills did and go to jail for 2 years and pay $113,000 in fines or he can say ‘Sorry Henry, move your crew. I can’t dig a ditch on my own land. I’m polluting the waters of the United States.’

CIRINA CATANIA – So when he says to this crew, “You aren’t allowed to do this, they can go sue us,” right?

HENRY LAMB – No, they say here is a cease and desist order and we will fine you $10,000 per day for every day you do not reshape, fill up this ditch. Not only do you have to stop work, you have to put it back to the way it was. And that’s the way it works.

CIRINA CATANIA – Once this is signed into law, what can be done about it?

HENRY LAMB – Well, in the case I just told you about, it (the consent decree) was appealed. Some 10 years later it was reversed by the Supreme Court. By that time, the idea that wetlands were a part of the waters of the United States had been written into the Clean Water Act Amendments in 1987. So, then reversing/overruling that previous court ruling didn’t matter because it was in the law. That’s the way it works. Very few people know this crap goes on.

CIRINA CATANIA – 0:43:52:00 C: You’re talking to a lot of people about all this on a daily basis, so how do you feel about what you are doing in that regard?

HENRY LAMB – Well, it’s what I do and I do it because I choose to do it. So, I feel very good about it. I am vastly encouraged by the growing number of people who are becoming aware and who are believing.

HENRY LAMB – This book, that we produced in 1996 and presented to our conference, when that was done, in 1996, Curt Christianson, who at the time worked for the House Resources Committee told friends of mine that Henry had finally fallen off the Earth, this UN business is going to ruin him.

HENRY LAMB – He has, since, helped us shape a bill called the American Land Sovereignty Protection Act, introduced by Don Young at two separate conferences, calling for, essentially, the elimination of these biosphere reserves.

HENRY LAMB – He has had to back up and apologize; he is fully on board and coordinating our effort to de-list. So, I’ve seen a lot of change in attitude by a lot of people in the last 10 years.

HENRY LAMB – This is, “The Global Environmentalism Agenda 21’s Impact on America – A Conference Workbook for the Attendees at the 1996 Conference on the Global Environmental Agenda.” It’s 571 pages divided into 8 divisions dealing with biological diversity, World Heritage Treaty, biosphere reserves, ecosystem management, Wildlands Project, The Convention on Desertification, a case study in great detail on Yellowstone National Park and the UNESCO’s role in it and the President’s Counsel on Sustainable Development.

CIRINA CATANIA – How many have happened since then?

HENRY LAMB – How many conferences? 1996, 1998, 2000 and every year since.

CIRINA CATANIA – How many people attended? And when is the next one?

HENRY LAMB – There were just over 300 in attendance at our last one in Reno. Next one is July 14 in Reno at the Nugget Hotel and you need to be there.

CIRINA CATANIA – Talk to me about you as a person, where you come from, how you got involved in all this?

HENRY LAMB – I’m from North Carolina by way of Florida. I taught school in North Carolina, in the mountains of North Carolina for three years. I went to Florida, was a legislative analyst for Hillsboro County Commission.

HENRY LAMB – And it was in 1976, after fighting 4 years to prevent the state legislature from adopting a state wide comprehensive planning act, the day that they adopted that bill. I was in Tallahassee, and called Irene and said,
“Put our house on the market. We are moving.”

HENRY LAMB – From that point, we drove across the southeast 3 different trips and found this area of west Tennessee. We didn’t know a soul in Tennessee, but we chose this place.

HENRY LAMB – We’ve lived here ever since, with the exception of 8 years in Chicago. Where I wound up after beginning the battle here in Tennessee against the Wetlands Policy, I started creating a state organization of contractors only to discover there was already a National Association of Contractors, who called me one day and asked me to become their Executive Vice President for the National Association, which I did.

HENRY LAMB – While there, I saw that even this trade association of 5,000 members had no clout in Washington. I called a meeting on Feb 17, 1988 of Home Builder’s Association, American Realtor’s Association, Farm Bureau, and 17 other organizations to meet in Chicago on how we could combine our effort to change this Wetlands policy.

HENRY LAMB – It was out of that meeting that the Environmental Conservation Organization grew.

HENRY LAMB – We started as a coalition of various organizations, we formalized it in 1990, and it was chartered. We moved to Tennessee in 1993. Because I was running the trade association and the non-profit organization, I could not do both. I chose to come here and do this and leave a job that had a salary attached. So, we came down here and the first several years were very, very painful. Very painful.

CIRINA CATANIA – If you could have stated your main goal back then, what was it?

HENRY LAMB – I think at that time, our biggest, initially, our vision was simply the Wetlands Policy – to change the Wetlands Policy to prevent the Federal Government from dictating how a private owner could or could not use his own land. I discovered Wetlands was the tip of the iceberg. And then, the goal has been expanded accordingly.

CIRINA CATANIA – What are your goals now?

HENRY LAMB – Our goal is to advance the principles of freedom in public policy at every level of government. That can range from issues as minor as, how do you go about deciding whether or not this is going to be public park in this community, to setting aside vast acreage of land as wilderness – the whole gamut.

CIRINA CATANIA: So, if I were then to ask you, then, to think of a summary of what are you doing to achieve that goal, how would you explain it?

HENRY LAMB – What we do in our reason for living is to inform people of facts, to involve them in activities at local, state, and national level that will advance those principles and prevent the implementation of policy that erodes those principles. We do that using the internet, through publications, through conferences, through any means that is effective and that are legal.

CIRINA CATANIA: You have some very valuable strategic alliances you have formed, can you talk about those?

HENRY LAMB – Well, the alliances that we have formed, for the most part, are informal and temporary. Such as the Grass Roots ESA Coalition, where as many as many as 50 to 100 organizations who share our common goals, as it relates to changing the Endangered Species Act, come together to collectively develop a strategy, collectively coordinate our tactics and try to achieve a common objective. And we do that with a great variety of issues. We’ve have done over the years with many issues ranging from early efforts to eliminate the use of chlorine, to ending Federal unfounded mandates, to just a great variety of issues.

CIRINA CATANIA: What has this done to your personal life?

HENRY LAMB – It is my personal life. Is there a different one?

CIRINA CATANIA: How does your family feel about this?

HENRY LAMB – Why don’t you ask them? (He laughs.)

CIRINA CATANIA: Oh, I’m going to. Why don’t you talk about who you have doing this with you.

HENRY LAMB – Probably best thing about what I’m doing at this point in my life now is being able to work with two of my sons, a daughter-in-law, and my wife because they do all the work. And that’s a fact.

HENRY LAMB – Merritt is in charge of all our publications. He has been working with us for 12 years, his wife has been working with us for most of that time. They understand their functions and responsibilities and somehow just do it, often without any money, but they have done it.

HENRY LAMB – Our youngest son, Mark Adam, does our computer work. He is our information technology guru.

HENRY LAMB – Irene keeps the whole thing running. So, there you go.

CIRINA CATANIA – I would like to ask you what you are most proud of.

HENRY LAMB – I think the thing I’m proudest of, I have lived long enough to see that this organization and our efforts will survive the day that I fall over because of Merriti, Karen, Irene, and Adam. The other generation coming along are as fully functional and qualified as I am that there won’t be a ripple the day that I get planted, it will keep going.

HENRY LAMB – That really has been very important to me for years and years and years because I’ve seen organizations built around a person. What we do has nothing to do with a person; it is an idea, a set of values. And these people obviously share it because they certainly aren’t getting rich doing what we are doing. They are doing it because they feel like it’s important to do. And they know that if they don’t keep doing it, I’ll come out of the ground and raise hell.
CIRINA CATANIA – 0:01:36:00 C: Do you have something that you still want to accomplish that you are waiting for?

HENRY LAMB – Oh yeah! We are just now getting to the point where we are ready to start doing the things that are out there to be done.

HENRY LAMB – It’s Land and it’s people. What keeps those together (the land and the people) and it is our value system and the laws that were created to keep the land and the people together. And I think, if we are going to preserve America we have to first preserve those values and those laws and the principles those laws are built on or we just won’t preserve America. That’s what I think about.

HENRY LAMB – A part of our organization is working on expanding this idea around the world, and there has been substantial growth in the international freedom movement, we will learn about that. And we will also learn about how the principles of sustainable development are negatively impacting many people around the world that are supposed to be helped by sustainability, but who, actually, being hurt. economically and environmentally. through these policies.

HENRY LAMB – Then we will focus on sustainable development. more in the urban setting, at this conference, than the rural setting although we will address rural issues such as ranching, grazing, public land use, resource use. But where the greatest educational need is now, to see that comprehensive planning is the other side of the sustainable development coin, and the impact that that is having and the various faces that it takes, heritage areas, cultural areas, historic areas, comprehensive planning, the impacts of that at the local and county and state level. That’s where we’re going to be focusing this year.

CIRINA CATANIA – What do you envision for future generations?

HENRY LAMB – At this point it is a toss-up. I think ultimately, no question in my mind, freedom shall prevail. I think it is entirely possible that we could go through a period of, a generation or 2 or 3 or 4, of excessive oppression. But, I am a firm believer that once the spark of freedom has been ignited and lived, it can’t go away. It can be stepped on, a blanket thrown over it, but it doesn’t go out. And, sooner or later, there will come another Thomas Jefferson, a James Madison, another bunch of nuts, who will throw the bums out and start all over again. I hope it doesn’t come to that. iI doesn’t have to come to that. If enough of us will get up off our butts and hold our elected representatives accountable, it doesn’t have to come to that. But that’s what we’ve got to do.

CIRINA CATANIA – How do you personally feel about America?

HENRY LAMB – Greatest place there ever was. As much as I bitch and moan about some of the stuff that goes on, you don’t have to go very far off shore to discover just how great this place is. I’ve grew up most of my life never thinking I’d see any other part of the world, but I’ve seen much of the world. The finest places in Europe, Geneva, in Germany, in Buenos Aires, in Kyoto. The finest of those places can’t hold a candle to anywhere here. And that’s the truth.
America is my home.